Congress overhauls pilot certification requirements, ups minimum to 1,500 hr.

Any idea if the ATP hour requiements will grandfather in those pilots today who have far less than even a thousand hours ?

Govt.subsidies needed to encourage & push pilots to reach the certification requirements, not forgetting the pilot shortage in the very near future

Pilot pay (or lack of it) has nothing to do with the Colgan air plane crash! (IF pay was an ISSUE, does that mean the Colgan crash would not had happend had the pilots been "paid better"??? We pilots knew the pay scale before hand and agree "voluntarily" to accept it as we all know it is a "spring board" to climb the aviation pyramaid to the majors....

I commuted when I was with the "commuters"... it was MY responsiblity and MY professionalism to make sure I arrive "early enough": to get enough rest before my duty. Even if that means to come one day early and sacrafice one day at home.

1500 hours as minimum requirement for Part 121 was the minimum requirement set by the company when I got hired by the commutuers... Today it may not be the "perfect" solution.. but it's "start"! (

Here is a different perspective... How would some of you feel if you knew some "asian" carriers has 300hr newly graduated Commercial Pilot License as your First Officer on B77& or B747-400 flying you across the pacific??? or do you prefer at least 1500 hr ATP???)... as a Captain on the B747-400, I choose the later any day!!

B747-400..Couldnt agree more.However I will go a step further to ensure that foreign operators operating in the US airspace must comply with the standards as some of these foreign carriers hires these lowtime pilots who paid for thier type rating with 250 hrs and put them in the right seat as it is cheaper than hiring experienced pilots..Good start to clean up the issues

I'm sure readers of these comments are familiar with the MPL program being pushed by ICAO. I wonder what political pressure was brought to bear to essentially lock that program out of US commercial aviation. Unions anyone?

A solution to a problem causing more problem's in the future

B747-400- Having 1500 hours and an ATP certificate does not make anybody a better pilot. It is what has been achieved with those 1500 hours that matters. It is the training industry in the US that is at fault cutting corners and producing poorly trained and educated individuals.

Your example of Asian carriers with 300hr pilots flying as First Officers on B777 & B747-400 across the pacific shows an ignorance that is surprising if you are a current B747-400 pilot. These individuals have been trained as professionals to a standard that is way in excess of the American 1500 hour ATP. I would choose this quality everyday.

My question is, how is it that requiring more hours before becoming a caption, will decrease fatigue issues? Or do they only care about the captions and not the co-pilots who will be scrambling to make those hours as fast as possible?

The only way I see the fatigue issue being solved is if they make it mandatory that the pilots and co-pilots take an 8 hour break after around 18 hours of tarmac and flight time.

This bill also requires the FAA to have in place new Crew Rest/Duty/Flight rules within 1 year of the bills' passage date.

Is a 1500 hour pilot better than a 188 hour pilot (that's about the minimum time required to get a Commercial License-NOT 250)? It depends.
BUT, A SPECIFIC pilot is DEFINITELY better at 1500 hours/ATP than THAT SAME pilot was at 200 hours. This bill will also make earning an ATP more difficult than it has been, so more training/experience will also make that same, individual pilot better.

cliff
GRB

atpcliff- Under the FAA system the the 250 hour Commercial Pilot unless he continues his training will by the time he reaches 1500 hours not have gained any additional skills that would enable him to get his ATP without attending one of the guaranteed courses-what a joke !. To get to 1500 hours the traditional route in the USA would be to gain the additional hours as a CFI.
Those hours do not make a better pilot. It is all about quality time and not quantity.
The rest of the world will always look down on the USA with their substandard training methods. Not a good time for US pilots looking for the big job overseas.

Good grief. Hours are accrued by time in the air. Accruing time in the air means that some sort of "experience" has been gained during that time. That's what I like about flying - it's always different even on the same route. WX is never the same, passengers, ATC demands, etc. Time logged is experience gained. Experience is what the 121 US carriers are selling. I'd say I personally like the thought of an RJ having at least 3000 hours and two ATPs in the cockpit. I think the American public deserves it. The Regionals' safety record pales in comparison to true 121 carriers and I'm sure, whether some of us want to believe it or not, it's due to the linear relationship of time logged and experience gained during that time logged. As for Fatigue - that's a factor for ALL pilots, regionals or the majors. Get over it and practice some self-responsibility, some professionalism. You want respect - earn it. The Colgon crash was all about experience. The Feds are hoping that in 1500 hours flying time MAYBE they'll end up with, at least a cockpit, that knows when to say NO! That's out of our league - we should turn back now - let's STOP the operation. Those are the thoughts a truly experienced pilot asks himself and the cockpit crewmembers when the deck starts stacking itself against mission accomplishment. I have 9 jet types and have been flying over 25 years. Think about what I've said my fellow pilots and I'm sure it'll sink in.

Pay has alot to do with things !! Pilots can't even afford to put themseleves up in a hotel when they are fatigued or sick! How about pilots taking financial issues to work and not even making enough money to afford to eat !!!!! This is happening. How about working five 16 hour duty days in a row while flying in the crap with many legs and this happens quite often...You say, "arrive a day early and you won't be fatigued" ya maybe on your first day but what about the others! Lets not forget what was said in the cockpit on the voicerecorders "I would have called in sick but I couldnt afford to" Yaun, Yaun, cough, cough, yaun, yaun!! Youre completely out of touch mr. 747 pilot who works does 4 trips a month and makes 200G's
!!

This will not just affect the 250 hour new commercial pilot. This will kill the dream of an airline career for many, myself included. Several years ago I decided to make a mid life career change. With 1050 hours now I have worked hard getting prepared for the next hiring cycle with my sites set on a regional FO seat. At age 49 my time to make this move is quickly running out. With the passage of this misguided legistation my hopes of a career with the airlines just died. The additional finanical outlay and additional time required to get from where I am now to holding an ATP rating will put me well into my 50's, so that kills it for me. I am all for crew rest and safety but the ATP requirement for FO will do very little to increase safety at a huge cost to the future airline hiring pool. They will eventuly have to back off of this requirement as the current pool of 1500 hour pilots gets drained, but it will be to late for this hiring cycle and to late for me. This is more about protecting union jobs and pay scale than safety. This is typical knee jerk DC politics, but we should all be used to it by now for that group of morons.

Hey captain "Sca...", who ass did you kissed and how many fences did u crossed already to land a contract job like that. Please tell me your name so I won't bother looking thru the list the next time commuting home.

Not so. Captain Marvin Renslow had 261 hours on the Q400, 110 hours as PIC.

These foreign pilots have no where near the training that American pilots have. I have worked for two different schools, which trained Chinese pilots, they are very smart, very dedicated, and very inexperienced. They have severe deficiencies in eye/hand coordination on average. Most of them do not even know how to drive a car before starting flight training. They also lack an independent "rely on yourself" attitude and confidence to make decisions. America holds the gold standard on aviation, why do you think all these other countries are sending their guys here for training?

Yes, they will be grandfathered in.

I'm 16 years old, I'm currently a student pilot and I've been flying for two years. My goal when I turn seventeen is to get my PPL , IR and MEL add-on and eventually get my CPL at 18. After, I would like to get some jet time through a type rating course. I was hoping to go to college with all of this done and just do some time building , focus on a degree. After graduation I would have just turned 22, I thought of trying to get an interview with a regional and go from there. With this new legislation, I won't be able to get an interview with a regional carrier. It's a bummer since I am not going to be eligible because of my age, although; If all goes well I will have over the required flight time by then. By any chance, what are the typical requirements to apply for an FO job with a 135 carrier? Any advice , as to what I could possibly do ? I like to constantly stay ahead of my career planning.
Thank You,
_Victor

The 1500 hr rule will not create an increase in safety. rather the desire of the pilot to be the best will be the determining factor. I have lost three CFI's in the last 6 months to the airlines. The had 2500, 1500 and 800 hours. the were all extremely professional in their approach to aviation. Each of them started as a 250 hours CFI and progressed to the level of professional pilot when they left us for the airlines. I wish each of them the best in their chosen field. None of them came from the big name schools that are trying to short circuit the rule with 1000 hours of classroom . there is no substitute for on hands experince. Pay is an issue for these pilots as they took a big cut in pay to go to the airlines as we paid them over double of what they will make at the regionals.

If you are flying a 747-400, you are probably a little disconnected from the regional aviation world where the wages are still insulting.

Saying that we "pilots knew the pay scale before hand" but still get into the job, which is then somehow OUR fault that we get paid so little, is not only annoying, but insulting.

How fast we forget at the top, what it's like at the bottom. By the way, it's easier to fly a nice big automated Boeing than a small turboprop that flies 7 legs a day. Add-in not having enough money to eat right, which equates to nothing short of malnourishment--a factor that is rarely, if ever addressed--being in a stressed state of mind, thinking "I went to college, got the training, I've got a career as an AIRLINE PILOT, but how come I can't afford to pay my phone bill this month?"...

Come on. I'm just not going to listen to a guy in a nice cushy 747-400 seat talk about how "enough" my pay is.

LET'S TRADE.

"The legislation leaves it up to FAA to determine how to implement the ATP license requirement, giving the agency 36 months to develop a new standard."
Quality should have been given more emphasis over the increase in hours, however, keep your fingers crossed as the FAA was supportive, so let them implement for the concern of the majority.

To the anonymous person thinking that the 300hr pilots have better training and professionalism than the American trained pilots: I'll start by saying this: YOU MUST BE ONE OF THOSE LOW TIME GUYS!! I agree that 1500hrs is not a magical number, but I can guarantee you that when you "mature up to a multi-thousand hour pilot" you will realize how a sub 1000hr or 1500hr pilot is not CUT to be a left seater on any kind of jet..let alone 300hrs!! I fly for a US major and consult for some foreign carriers across the world, let me tell you that in "theory" they are taught more than here in the US, but as far as "stick and rudder" there is no comparison...I really don't care to have an FO who knows what material was used to make the landing light toggle switch!
Any pilot in the US (including me) when fresh out of flight school wished to be like and envied our fellow pilots overseas, but when you acquire experience, believe me your perspective on the matter would change.

All foreign carriers that have low time FO's, their captains are in a way underpaid and overworked because they act as PIC and flight instructor...and if things go bad..he's on his own!!
Things are not perfect for us here in the states, but I have more confidence having my kids fly on a US carrier than most foreign carriers...now those though serve free booze in coach!!

... if you knew anything about aviation son u would know that the Chinese government are now stitching all their pilots to do canadian pilots license its more tough and the training is more thorough
u look at the safety record of the USA and compare it to that of Canada you will see why
ive flown with those same chinese pilots and someone of em were exemplary pilots some was in ti for the money but most did it caus ethey love flyign and wen you have a love for flying u just excel in wat u do cause its where your heart it
im the same pilot who finished flight school with 232.6 hours and went straight onto a Dash 8 because the country where im from you have to do an exam where you have to know the General in depth of how everything in a commercial airline works 8 topic with a pass mark of 75%, AC ELECTRICS, DC ELECTRICS, AIR CONDITIONING & PRESSURIZATION, FLIGHT CONTROLS, HYDRAULICS, THORY OF FLIGHT, PROPS, ENGINE , GAS TURBINE ENGINES - that was a general exam that u had to pass to be even considered for the job so i started out in experienced and so have all my other colleagues in the company i work for but yet still our company has a 0 fatality record and we've been flying since 1974 alot went to the USA for training but there is no way u can do from stratch to CPL/Multi-IFR in 6 months, to much info to process in that short space of time that why i will forever love the canadian sysytem the only school in the USA that has an extremly high standard in Embrry Riddle but the price is outta this world
im telling you the USA system ... they dont even teach you about an NDB approach wat rubbish is da u tell me u cant land at an airport dat has an NDB that is 10 miles away u have to go 65 miles away just so u can do ur RNAV Approach absolute rubbish
Experience is vital in this industry and the FAA system really isnt solid enough to guarantee it some that are serious about it come out great pilots but others they just dont know
so get ur facts right

This 1500 hour rule should not even exist, but this is the result of what happens when you mix Politicians and Aviation in other words oil and water. Do some of these ignorant bureaucrats even know the going rate of flight time and the cost of an aviation education? I happen to know it way too well and telling me I need 1500 hours in order to get a job is insane. I graduate with 250 hours where's the 1250 supposed come from? How bout the scumbag politicians start paying for low hour guys timebuilding? But hey, life must be seen from a whole new perspective by those weasels and liars in congress that is not available to us commoners, Then again, these decisions come very easily and they forget to think about the average Joe when they have the luxury to gather votes and increase their salary 50k whenever they please

I have a comment re the 1500 hour rule.
i feel a full type rating (pic as opposed to sic) would be a better requirement than an atp. sic is just a sign off and one t/o and landing whereas a pic type is an actual ride with an faa examiner.
also years ago many countries (argentina still has it) what was called a first class commercial or comm a license. in argentina its 900 hours total with at least 25 hours multi , hold a commercial license and ifr and pass the atp written. this license allows you to fly f/o . then at 1500 you just do the atp flight test and issued the atp.
i think this would be a great compromise. 250 is too little 1500 is too much . like others mentioned, another 1000 hours banner towing or instructing doesnt make you a great pilot.
so the us could come up with a new license (call it whatever you want) for example , be the holder of a comm/ifr/me , have at least 800 hours and 50 or 100 multi and pass the atp written and some jet transition course.
so full pic type and a comm 1st class = my idea