Bombardier: CSeries can hold its own against re-engined A320/737

By Aaron Karp | May 26, 2010

Bombardier pushed back against the notion that a re-engined A320 or 737 would severely damage the viability of its CSeries, questioning whether Airbus or Boeing could deliver equivalent fuel-burn improvements without making major and costly aircraft design modifications.

Qatar Airways CEO Akbar al-Baker said last year that Pratt & Whitney's PW1000G geared turbofan fitted to the A320 would be "fatal" for the CSeries, which is slated to enter service in 2013 powered by the same engine (ATWOnline, Oct. 14, 2009). Speaking to reporters yesterday at the Regional Airline Assn. Annual Convention in Milwaukee, Bombardier VP-Marketing-Commercial Aircraft Phillippe Poutissou said the CSeries' promised "15% cash operating advantage" over today's narrowbodies is based on aircraft design as a whole, "not a simple engine plug-and-play."

He added, "The only way to achieve a step-change in economics is to look at the entire package and the engine is only 50% of the package." He explained that airframe and wing "size dimension" was designed on the CSeries to optimize fully the PW1000G's 12:1 bypass ratio. "In order to take full advantage of that, you need to give yourself a clean sheet," he said.

In order for Airbus/Boeing's costs on a re-engine program (ATWOnline, April 8) not to "balloon," the manufacturers are likely to "try to minimize changes you make to the aircraft and that in the end leads to compromises" that could limit fuel burn gains, he asserted.

Poutissou insisted that Bombardier is "well on its way" to bringing the CSeries to market on time in 2013. "We've invested heavily in testing upfront" in an effort to avoid unexpected problems, he said. CSeries launch customer Lufthansa has a firm order for 30. Other customers are Republic Airways Holdings with a firm order for 40 (ATWOnline, Feb. 26) and Irish operating lessor Lease Corp. International with a firm order for 20.

Bombardier is forecasting 6,300 commercial aircraft deliveries in the 100/149-seat range through 2028, 60% of which will be replacements for existing aircraft. It also is projecting 5,800 deliveries in the 60/90-seat range through 2028, 40% of which will be turboprops.

Discuss this news 14

26 May01:51

Perhaps I'm mistaken, I was

By J. Herrera

Perhaps I'm mistaken, I was unaware that Qatar Airways was an Industry Leader in ascertaining Aircraft Efficiency ratings, and was qualified to opine such lofty opinions as to engine efficiencies.
But what do I know?
Now that Qatar Airways is the acknowleged voice in Aviation Trends, we should all pay close attention to their pronouncements in the future.
Big Yawn here...

26 May04:17

He's just softening

By Torquelink

He's just softening Bombardier up prior to placing an order for the C Series on the basis that they will give him even ore advantageous terms to get him to buy so they can tell the world that the aircraft's biggest critic is now on side.

26 May04:17

He's just softening

By Torquelink

26 May09:54

I think Boeing will offer

By Anonymous

I think Boeing will offer clean sheet design instead of new engines plug in.

26 May10:17

"I think Boeing will offer

By Anonymous

"I think Boeing will offer clean sheet design"

Yes... But how long will that take?! Better part of a decade, even if they start today that's 2020, so the Boeing product would be a newer gen product, which is good, but 737 sales will take a hit till then, which is bad. For Boeing that is.

26 May11:23

I think this is a gain for

By Anonymous

I think this is a gain for Boeing in the long run and I do agree with you that in the short run Boeing will take a hit on 737 sales.

26 May11:26

The CSeries' really major

By Airstare

The CSeries' really major advantages will be in its cabin-stowage bins, its large cabin windows, seats and aisle width; and the shorter CS100 version's range from short fields (LCY springs to mind). The large size of the CSeries' wing (the CS100's wingspan is slightly longer than its fuselage length, unusual in a swept-wing aircraft) will allow the CS100 ER version to operate 2,700-2,950nm sectors from hot-and-high runways (which is why Qatar wants it) or pretty short ones such as SNA. (Meanwhile, ask Bombardier how far the CS100 ER will be able to fly from LCY with an all-premium load of 32-35 pax...)

As for the cabin interior, the right-side baggage bins (the CSeries is 5-abreast, not 6-abreast) will be able to stow 25in roller bags wheels-first (the standard IATA size is 22in) and pax will have a huge amount more roller-bag stowage space than in today's aircraft; the aisle will be 20in wide (2in wider than most other single-aisle aircraft), allowing 15-minute turn-rounds; and each window and aisle seat will be 18.5in wide, while the middle seat will be 19in wide -- 2in wider than the middle seats in the 737. The windows are much bigger than those of the 737 and will be set into sculpted cutaways; the restrooms are large; and the cabin will feature mood lighting. I've sat in the CSeries cabin mock-up (at 32in seat pitch) and it's very comfortable indeed.

One more point: Bombardier Commercial Aircraft President Gary Scott is on record (I reported it a couple of weeks ago) as saying Bombardier has no intention of going above 145 seats with the CSeries, so there's little need for Airbus and Boeing to worry about it eating into their precious A320 and 737-800 markets. However, as regards the 737-700 and the A319, which aren't optimized for the market segment, as well as the Embraer 190 and 195, that's a different matter...

26 May13:06

Anyone hear of this company

By Anonymous

Anyone hear of this company called Embraer? Bombardier is not the only competition; indeed, the E-Jets have already stolen sales from the 737 and the A318/319 (not so much the 320). And you can bet that Embraer will not let Bombardier ruin their momentum.

26 May15:00

Whether Boeing/Airbus

By Dan Perley

Whether Boeing/Airbus re-engine existing narrow-body airplanes, build new ones or do both, I believe that the Bombardier C-Series will still do well both at the top of the regional market and the bottom of the mainline market.

This has been a very long time coming and the C-Series represents the first serious Canadian mainline transport aircraft contender since the demise of the Canadair CL-44 in the early 1960's. The near collapse of our aviation industry in the early 1960's was due to our idiotic Prime Minister Diefenbaker who took out not only the Avro CF-105 Arrow supersonic interceptor, but also much of the remainder of the Canadian aviation industry with it.

Fifty years it has taken Canada to recover from the the destruction of Avro Aircraft and Orenda Engines putting out of work 15,000 people in those two firms plus another 45,000 in subcontractor organizations and relegating Canada to a bit-part status in world aviation. We are still incapable of getting a first-class military aviation program past Square 1 and that too needs to be resolved.

Dan Perley

26 May15:47

If I were a passenger

By John B.

If I were a passenger (imagine that) I would want my airline to fly CSeries.

Regardless if re-engining a 6-abreaster can even come close on efficiency, it will simply not be a competitive passenger experience.

27 May00:06

As a Canadian, I'd love to

By AndrewChen

As a Canadian, I'd love to see Bombardier make a leap with the C-series aircraft. Once they land a foot on the beach, they will become a real serious player in narrowbody aircraft business. Good for the aviation industry. I can't wait to fly the C-series jet.

27 May10:19

You hit it 100% my friend.

By ChicoD

You hit it 100% my friend. That's exactly what's going to happen.

27 May10:30

Boeing and Airbus worried

By Hoangfuong

Boeing and Airbus worried because the wing size on C-Series, with that size the body can stretch to carry over 150 Pax.

27 May13:15

Hmmm, Probably the previous

By Nitik MKD

Hmmm,

Probably the previous poster Hoangfuong has just found the exact point here. If there is a possibility to stretch the body so could get into 150 pax, which translated means tickling in the area where Airbus and Boeing are the only players. Seems to me that there are interesting times in front of us, if the aforementioned thing is to be true.

Apart from CSeries , Bombradier is also focused on the 100seat market with CRJ 1000.
Does anyone knows how the things are for CRJ1000? I think thay postponed it for later this year.

BTW,I instantly fell in love with the CRJ900 design first time I saw it. What a nice design.