
Boeing Corporate President and CFO James Bell indicated Tuesday that the manufacturer is unlikely to re-engine the 737, saying the potential fuel-burn improvement over today's narrowbodies does not look "sufficient enough" to justify a "business case" for doing so.
Speaking to the Morgan Stanley Global Industrials Conference in New York, available via webcast, Bell said Boeing's analysis has revealed aircraft adjustments and engine weight would mean efficiency gains would be well below the 16% fuel-burn improvement over current narrowbody powerplants projected by Pratt & Whitney for its PW1000G geared turbofan (ATW Daily News, April 1) and the 14%-16% gain predicted by CFM International for its LEAP-X (ATW Daily News, April 30). "It looks more like a single-digit improvement, which we don't think our customers are interested in," Bell explained, adding, "Our customers haven't shown a real interest in a re-engined airplane."
He emphasized Boeing has not "dismissed" re-engining and won't make a final decision until later in the year. But he said the only way the company would likely move forward with a re-engined 737 is if it determines the technology for an all-new 737 is "30 years out…but we don't think that's the case." Based on Boeing's assessment to date, "we don't think the performance improvement is sufficient enough to re-engine," he said.
Regarding the once-again delayed 787 program, Bell said Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 engine availability problems were the "last straw on the camel's back" making it impossible to complete certification in time for first delivery to ANA this year (ATW Daily News, Aug. 30). "Clearly, [the 787 program] hasn't gone exactly the way we would have liked, but at the end of the day it will be a game changer," he said, adding the latest delay only affects flight testing and EIS, not the Dreamliner's production ramp-up. Boeing remains on track to "get to the 10 [per month build rate] by mid-2013," he said. The current 787 build rate is about 2.5 per month.
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Boeing is "signalling" Airbus
By AnonymousBoeing is "signalling" Airbus with this statement. Hopefully Airbus will ignore it and proceed with A320 NEO.
Not Just an Engine
By AnonymousNot Just an Engine Decision
Farnborough is long over and Boeing and Airbus exhaled a collective sigh of relief as the C-Series and MRJ did not have major show orders announced that would have placed added pressure to make a decision on narrowbody re-engine or redesign. Unfortunately, the pressure remains high with operators who have an aging fleet of 737’s and A320 series aircraft; when will they be provided with much needed breathing room in the terms of a new efficient narrowbody that is the mainstay of many airline fleets around the globe?
The Airlines are not sitting idle as they are voicing their concerns that a decision needs to be made on new clean sheet design because re-engining will not achieve the efficiencies needed to make difference in operation. Meanwhile lessors are focusing on the short sighted plan of re-engining and the devastation it will have on their current portfolio value and future deliveries of 737’s and A320’s. The engine OEM’s are eager to provide a powerplant no matter what the choice and have judiciously steered clear of any crossfire during this debate.
As the rhetoric continues have the airlines and lessors lost sight of an important concept introduced on the 787 that could save each of them millions of dollars in operational/capital cost and stabilized portfolio value of aircraft? Boeing, Airbus and the engine OEM’s probably do not want this concept repeated with a re-engining option or a new design next generation narrowbody. Make the engine interchangeable at the wing. We all marveled when Boeing made this decision on engine interchangeable at the wing the 787 but much has not been said about this revolutionary change in aircraft/engine design and its application to a narrowbody re-engining/redesign program.
This concept has the ability to be refined in both the re-engining and clean sheet design phase. If Boeing and Airbus spend the R&D dollars design a new pylon for a re-engining program, why would it then not be possible to transfer the design to the clean sheet aircraft and allow the use of the advance technology engines used in re-engining? Airlines and lessor would look favorably on this concept as it will provide economies of scale and protect their portfolio values. Now I know the naysayers are preparing to list the reasons why this is not achievable so let’s look at history of engine efficiency upgrades on the CFM56-7B used on 737NG.
The base CFM56-7B was first improved with upgrades to the HPC/HPT airfoils, LLP lives and low emissions combustor. No change to the mounting or intermixability limitations of engines on wing. Next round of improvements were made in the turbine with a reduction in airfoils again without a change in mounting. It is proven modifications to improve efficiency can be made without architectural mounting changes to incorporate those changes. It is highly unlikely that in the next ten years another 10 to 15 percent in efficiency will be gained by either engine OEM who are already touting 15% in improvements over current engines.
Boeing and Airbus need to seriously consider this interchangeability concept on their re-engining or clean sheet designs. This will place the engine OEM’s on notice to design an engine that is reliable, efficient and the lowest overall cost to operate. Lessors will benefit by being able to transition these large portfolios of aircraft between operators and not be saddled with an orphan fleet that is of no value to anyone.
So let’s stop the rhetoric of the airlines will wait for the right solution or measuring the distance of the nacelle from the runway. It is a simple concept which could yield major benefits to airlines that have been ready for the right solution for a long time.
Awesome post, thanks for the
By AnonymousAwesome post, thanks for the insight.
I think we will see a 737
By Aaron ChandlerI think we will see a 737 replacement thats basiclly a single aisle 787, and an single aisle A350 style A320 replacement from Airbus. i.e. plastic airplanes. I don't think Brazil can build anything like that soon.
Why? No case there either.
By AnonymousWhy? No case there either. Airlines may want reengining-but not at a cost.
Perfectly put, exactly the
By by JimPerfectly put, exactly the case.
Thank you.
I liked ILFC's (I think)
By AndrewthionI liked ILFC's (I think) suggestion to A and B that their next narrow bodies be 7 abreast with two aisles. 2-3-2 standard, 2-2-2 business and 2-4-2 high density would be more customer saleable, more efficient per seat, and more differentiated from the Bomber, Embraer, UAC, Mitsu, AVIC crowd than 6 abreast.
But six abreast or seven, clean-sheet is necessary, and it is a question of corporate finance that will determine the when. Re-engining decades-old designs is a non-starter.
Furthermore, IMO, interchangeable engines opening up true competition in engine design is based on an extremely oversimplified economic based consideration of the issues. Aircraft with engines are not boxy desktop computers with hard disks.
RR & GE did a good job with
By AnonymousRR & GE did a good job with designing the "box" for the 787. Two completely different engine designs (three spool vs. two spool) that needed to fit in the same space. Enabling the removal of one engine type, installing another and some simple flight deck software changes you have different airplane. IMO your IMO is bit oversimplified.
I'm not saying it doesn't
By AndrewthionI'm not saying it doesn't work from an engineering standpoint, I'm saying it's naive to suggest it will create "true competition" (my words). The barriers to entry for competitors to create reliably safe and cost efficient machines are so high, and the cost of re-engining an entire fleet is also so high that the number of "competitors" will always end up being the basic monopoly or duopoly we already have (per most aircraft designs). A design miss by an inch can be a market miss by a mile and it takes a lot of capital gambling to even consider a venture.
Furthermore the designs we already get from the engine makers are good enough to withstand multiple decades of tweaks before they, _along_with_the_aircraft_, are ready for clean-sheeting too. (e.g., where the 6 abreasters are today.)
Interchangeability can be workable, but unlikely to create a state of continual competitive evolution. The industry with interchangeable engines would basically resemble the industry today: one or two or sometimes three basic designs running for the life of the aircraft design.
Say what you will, but I leave my discussion to one statement and one rebuttal. We may agree to disagree for now, but the time to revisit this is decades in the future.
One problem about the
By AnonymousOne problem about the Interchangeability engines for the next generation NB is that there is a big possibility that the Open rotor is the next step in 10-15 years.
I don't think that you can fit a Open Rotor on an existing aircraft design.
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