ATSB credits Qantas pilots in A380 engine incident

Excellent job done by the Qantas pilots. The pilots, as well as other airlines staff, deserve an equal scale of pay and bonus increase as the top management.

Pilots are paid for what they actually do, which is precious little IF everything goes as it should. They should be paid for what they can do, IF things go wrong as in this case. Alternatively how about paying them an enormous bonus everytime they fix something or save a situation when things go wrong, as in this case! Just a thought!

I hope youi don't have your hands on a yoke or cyclic. The computers and systems (when they are working) are there to reduce the pilot's workload through the decisions he/she makes, not take it over. The pilot's oversee the systems and computers ALL the time while they function. When the automation fails or malfunctions, the pilot still has to make decsions with an increased workload. No aircraft lands or takes off by itself without pilot input. If you knew anything about aircraft construction then you would know that aircraft are designed to be inherently unstable, it's the pilot who stabilises everything. If you are a pilot then you probably fly like a bus driver and your landings are really arrivals and take offs are departures. The significant diffences could only be discerned by a real aviator.

I retired as an engineer working for a large domestic airline for 32 years. Part of my job was troubleshooting problems on aircraft following manufacture or maintenance. Most of the flying, as an observer on test flights, was in the cockpit near the pilots. The subject of how much pilots should be paid is not a new one and is one that I (and many others) have given considerable thought.
Pilots need to know what to do when something goes wrong. Things do go wrong more often than the public knows. Problems vary in complexity. The simple ones can be dealt with easily - the complex ones require no small amount of training/intelligence. Thom believes aircraft are now flown by computers. This is partly true, but what happens when the computers go amok, as they did on QF32. This has happened several times in problems I was involved with. Computers do reduce the normal workload, but considerably increase the workload when they go bad. And they must be monitored to assure they are working correctly. And there is plenty to go wrong in an airplane beyond computers. The complexities of airplanes mean pilots are not "glorified bus drivers". Anyone that believes that is totally out of touch with reality.

So, how much should they be paid? They are paid more that bus drivers. They are not paid as much as they would like (who is?). Some of the pay is negotiated by their union. Some depends on supply and demand. There seemed to not be enough bright attentive people with good judgment to fill pilot positions. Pre 911, the supply was tight, the unions strong and the pay was great. Pensions looked good too until several airlines went bankrupt and the PBGC took over the pensions. The government rules capped the benefits and a lot of pilots wound up with less than planned. Until this year, airlines got themselves into economic straight jackets and were desperate to cut costs.

Finally Bob t speaks with some knowledge! $175k to push tin with 300+ souls or $60k to push a smaller piece of tin with 50 living souls. Pilots want respect for their trade? Try working together and drop the pay of the 80 hour per month 'bus drivers' (and yes they DO fall asleep (overfly an island by an hour) or play with their laptops (overfly Detroit) and share some of that booty with the RJ Capt that is trying to put food on his table rather than worrying about if one of his renters in his Hawaii condos is going to pay rent next month. Capt Jack probably has never seen how or why that aircraft stays in the air- I'm sure he thinks his God-like presence is what keeps it up in the air. Give me a break!

Anyone with any knowledge of the systems on todays airplanes cannot (logically at least) deny the amount of skill and dedication required to maintain currency. Where it always becomes contentious is compensation. How much is enough? Having watched contract negotiations since the '80s, I can tell you that pre-9/11, compensation levels were not enough for ALPA, APA, or any other collective bargaining group. And this includes TWU and APFA. Some of the stuff APA has asked for in the past is insane, if not downright comical.

What would be enough? Fill in the black checks distributed on the 15th and last days of the month? Fair is a very subjective amount. I guarantee if you had a survey at any airline and allowed every employee to give their binding input as to fair compensation, those airlines would be out of business the day after the compensation became effective. I know everybody believes they deserve Arpey money, but the truth is, only he gets it and if you tried to compensate every one else at that level, let alone just the pilot group, we'd all be working somewhere else.

Hats off to everyone involved with landing that airplane!

An uncontained engine failure on any aircraft is usually a quite rare event. However, when it happens, the damage can be catastrophic. Had the number 2 engine failed and engine parts were thrown into the cabin itself or there had been a significant fire in connection with the engine failure, the outcome could have been very different.

When events like this happen, we count on the flight crew and those assisting them to do what they have been trained countless hours to do and use their combined knowledge and skills when they have to go outside the box.

This QANTAS crew deserves not only our gratitude, but our respect. They did what most of us could not ever conceive of doing; dealing with a multitude of control failures - which on an aircraft like the A380 which so very sophisticated, while continuing to fly the aircraft and get everyone on the aircraft back on the ground safely.

This is not about pay, although I can understand the pilots' point of view on this subject. It is about dedication, training and courage in the face of a situation that could have gone very differently were it not for their actions. On this account, these guys have my admiration and respect. As does QANTAS...for having these kinds of individuals flying their aircraft gives me peace of mind when I fly.

Bravo!

Gentlemen, with all due respect. Yes we ALL should paid to receive what is we are ALL worth, but bottom-line no one is making you decide to sign the contract, its your final decision. These men who landed this plane properly and kept everyone safe is was what this article is all about. Hero's. And not easy because others may feel left out - we could say the same - police, firemen, military, etc. All who do and did their job to bring this plane down properly: congradulations; Pilots and crew, Air Traffic controllers, engineers, etc. Regardless, all who are in this industry play an important role-Safety-that is always something we can improve on. Would you rather have a safe operating aircraft that a company invested $$ into, or would you want to work for a company who put their investment in pilots, but have a mediocre aircraft and unsafe machine to fly? Well, the men who just landed this plane safely-Their value was proven and went up, and to live to tell it...that's something to be proud of. All pilots should be respected, especially dealing with lives. We trust you and thank you for your commitment in your profession.

Kudos to the Qantas crew - five problem solvers who passed (hopefully) the most challenging test of their professional careers.

These fine folks represent the ladies and gentlemen who occasionally are refered to by individuals as 'bus drivers', splendidly.

The professionals among us will recognise two things: 1st; We're glad we weren't there! and, 2nd; If we were to find ourselves in a similar position we hope we would have the same outcome!.

Here's a word of advice to some of the naysayers among this thread - pilots are hired for their problem solving skills. Most of the time it's true that there's an aspect of oversight of functioning systems and all is well. However, more frequently in these tight financial times, there's a lot more 'trouble-shooting' occuring than the general public is aware of. If making this all look too easy results in the appearance that some feel we could be replaced by a bus driver, then I guess while we could take that as a complement it's obviously not intended as one and must be challenged.

Those of us who fly know this to be true - the last thing on the minds of the Qantas crew was how large or small their paycheck might be!

Unfortunately airline managements' know this to be true also. Hence the continued professionalism demonstrated on a daily basis throughout the US and worldwide ought to be admired, not insulted.

Again, kudos the crew of QF32.

Proud to be among your professional brothers and sisters.

I have some thoughts on the pay issue here. How about mechanics? (I guess they call them technicians, now.) I was an aircraft MECHANIC. My friends that were auto mechanics always made more money than me. WHY????
Young people with mechanical ability and a desire to work with their hands are not going to aviation maintenance schools-they are going to auto mechanic schools. Several aviation maintenance schools have folded. I don't blame these kids. Why would you want to be in a job that has a government agency watching your every move? Why would you move all over the country for a job? Why take a low paying job that has so much resposibility? The airlines won't pay anything, and the FBO's are worse. Most airlines now farm their work out to foreign countries. I have always had a great deal respect for pilots, and they should have better pay, but so to, should mechanics. CEO's like Parker and the guy at CO/UA are a dime a dozen! (Remember Stephen Wolf?)

I am quite annoyed about how my fellow pilots / engineers yap about pay instead of writing about the pride they should feel and show over the very professional way the Quantas Crew handled an "unprecedented" number of warnings and alerts.
Just think about how to organize all that information in order of priority - something a computer can not do, it all being "unprecedented".

I do agree, however, that mismanagement - or downright theft - is much too easy to get away with.
It belongs, however, in another forum.

"Salut" for the Quantas Crew!

Having worked for Qantas for many years in sales, the question most asked by passenegers was "How can Qantas have flown for 90 years without a commercial passenger fatality?" It's because of Qantas crews like the ones in the 380 incident. Training, training, training! Crews like them made selling Qantas a much easier job. "Good on you mates!"

These QUUUUANTASS pilots needed a real Engineer/Mechanic on board in order to speed up a faster resolution. These pilots dicked around in the air for a long time trying to figure things out by going thru checklists, meanwhile a wing could have been burning off.

These peelots were looking through the 'telescope' trying to figure out what was going on.

Meanwhile the crusty ole Engineer/Meehanic could have been looking at the 'telescope' ensuring that the peelots were looking through the proper end of the scope.

Regarding pay v. safety and using American Airlines as an example...

According to the last proxy statement, Arpey's total compensation was $5,631,002 in 2009.

According to Allied Pilots Association web site, APA has 11,500 members.

If Arpey was paid nothing and his compensation was distributed equally among the membership, each would receive $490. If I write the pilot a check for $490 the next time I get on a American flight, would that guarantee me he'll pay attention and do exactly what he's supposed to do and not do anything he not supposed to do for the entire flight? If not, how much would I have to make the check?

No News from me, I've always sung the song of praise of our fabulous Australian brothers and sisters "Down Under".
Through absolute, unswerving Professionalism, disregarding pay scales, merging of Ansett, et al, they've been the best.
The finest of Aviation Professionals, they rose to the ocassion, as they always do. They are Beacon to the rest of us.
Qantas employees have been, still remain, the best of the best. Gawd Love 'Em !

going by your statement QF32 should have crashed because many computers onboard had failed. credit goes to the pilots who took over the controls and landed the aircraft. and its not computers who fly the aircraft but its the pilots who use the computers to fly the aircraft..

Are we trying to make GODS out of these pilots?

I think so.

I am a pilot.

over30000hrs 50yrs of military,major airlines ,corporate. general, testpilot, faatce/dpe jaa/uk typed and flown capt in b757,b767,b747-400 da-7x da-easy qualified flight eng, flight nav. aviation consultant .i started flying when still had a&n ranges ,light beacons and i am now typed and qualified in the most advanced fly by wire , computer aircrafts in the world.due to the anti labor of our politics in the usa most of my fellow aviators have lost their pensions. medical etc.gentlemen you are suppose to get paid for the money you generate for your co. and also for your expertise and education required for the position.if you really want to get upset ,do the math on figuring what you personally generated on your flights and how much you would be paid as a salesman. the aviation industry is reflective of the business model of corp. america. reward management and reduce labor cost under the pretense that it is necessary in order to be competetive. all professional pilots know the skill and dedication that their profession requires. Good luck to all you hard working dedicated professionals and remember there will be no changes unless you put politcians in office who will stop the raping of the workers of the usa. i hate to make it political ,but it is what it is'